It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
Locations
Discussion about the Tallmantz Aircraft
Back to Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World website
A. What happened to the Beechcraft D-18? Where is it today?
In 2005, Ed Solter, a visitor to this website, contributed the following information about the final end of the Beechcraft D-18 used in the movie:
"I was always fascinated with the twin-engine Beechcraft D-18 that
Tallmantz Aviation used in the movie, It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, and
wondered what happened to it. I found some information awhile back that might
interest you. My uncle Andrew "Fred" Solter went to flying school in the United
States Army Air Corps and was friends with Paul Mantz
(1903-1965), so my family has always
had a connection there. [Tallman + Mantz = Tallmantz].
I gathered this information from two reliable sources. First, Bob Farmer, in his
book "Broken Wings: Hollywood's Air Crashes," states that after the billboard
stunt that cracked the windshield and dented the leading edges of the wings, the
plane was flown to Ontario airport and parked across from The Planes of Fame Air
Museum, which was at that airport at the time. Shortly thereafter, the plane was
sold at auction to a Nebraska auto dealer -- but it remained at the Ontario
airport and never left California.
In 1969, the FAA mandated wing straps for the main spar on all Beechcraft 18s.
This reinforcement was quite costly. Cracks had been found on older 18s, which
caused several to shear wings in flight. The IAMMMMW plane was sold again in
1970-71 to a plane broker named Richard Vartanian. Several months later, after
the plane had sat at the Ontario airport for several years, it was dismantled
and scrapped. I verified this in a conversation I had two years ago with Ed
Mahoney, the owner of Planes of Fame Air Museum, now at Chino Airport. He stated
that his friend Frank Tallman
(1919-1978) told him that the billboard they made out of balsa
wood had been allowed to dry too long and had hardened up, causing damage to the
plane. He also stated that he would never do a stunt like that again.
It's a shame that we lost that plane to the scrap yard. Today, with all the
nostalgia for old airplanes, it would probably bring $150,000 to $200,000. And
that for a plane that Tallmantz bought for only $10,000. I have the bill of
sale. Cheers! Ed Solter
B. Where was the billboard that the Beechcraft D-18 flew through?
In 2007, Scott Thompson, of Aero Vintage Books, sent this information:
I found your webpage on Mad Mad World particularly interesting, particularly
the information about Frank Tallman and the Beech 18 [flying] through the billboard. I've
long researched Tallmantz Aviation and had seen this question bantered about the
web for awhile so I had occasion to research this in the Tallmantz files held at
the Margaret Herrick Archives for the Acadamy of Motion Picture Arts and
Sciences.
I reviewed the actual invoice billed by Tallmantz Aviation to the film makers
for the billboard scene. It was shot on December 19, 1962, and involved a
departure and return to Orange County Airport (now John Wayne). The flight
lasted less than one hour. I would suspect the scene was shot in Irvine or
some part of rural southern Orange County. The film company was also billed
several thousand dollars to repair the damage done to the airplane.
The air-to-air shots of the Beech 18 were done from a Tallmantz B-25, probably
also over southern Orange County. In the future, I plan on spending more time
going through that file, which consists mainly of invoices for Mantz's and
Tallman's time for practicing for the billboard scene, correspondence between
Tallmantz and the film makers, and other invoices and billing summaries.
Interesting stuff. It also details some of the filming scenes, particularly with
the biplane, at Thermal Airport (near Palm Springs).
The mention on your site that the Beech 18 may have been sold to a Nebraska auto
dealer is interesting, as over three dozen Tallmantz airplanes were sold to a
Nebraska partnership in 1966, after the death of Paul Mantz. I had not heard
that this airplane was part of that sale. If true, I don't think the airplane
was at the Ontario Airport as indicated by your source. I'll have to check my
other source on Beech 18s to see if there is any additional history of this
airplane available.
You may find this thread on my Aero Vintage website of some interest:
http://aerovintage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124&start=0
The web still amazes me with what is out there.
Scott Thompson
Aero Vintage Books
Chudleigh Responds:
I wonder why that stunt is so often linked to the Chino airport, if that airport was not involved? Do you think it is possible that the plane took off from Orange County, flew through the sign by the Chino airport, made an emergency landing at the Chino airport, then flew [30 miles] back to OC? But, that is a lot to happen in less than an hour, isn't it? And it would raise the question of why would they fly all the way to Chino when there were plenty of fields where they had been practicing in Orange County. Please let me know if you learn more.
Scott Thompson Responds:
I don't think Chino was involved at all. The invoice was pretty clear in that it was a SNA-SNA [John Wayne to John Wayne] flight. Besides, once the airplane was on the ground it didn't go anywhere for quite awhile. There is also an invoice for the aircraft repairs...I'll get the particulars on that when I go back for more research in months/years ahead. If I come with anything else in the meantime, I'll let you know.
In 2008, Ed Solter wrote to James Rogers:
James, I saw in your post on the Tallmantz Web site that you worked at Tallmantz aviation between 1963-1968. Do you remember seeing their Twin Beech there and do you know the location of the billboard site for the movie It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, were they flew it thru a billboard. Thanks.
James Rogers Responds:
Well the sign was built there at TallMantz. We built it out of balsa wood, hauled it out to the hills in Irvine and set it up. To remember the spot is tough, because now it is all houses and shopping centers, etc. It was just over the hill from old Orange County airport (John Wayne) going towards about where the old "Lion Country Safari" was, where I actually was their first photographer when they broke ground until around 1970? Anyway it seems as I recall it was very close to that area. Frank just barely made it back that day, the twin Beech had balsa wood and cardboard jammed in the starboard engine air intake and on final approach to the airport, the engine was smoking and ready to shut down when he feathered it and set her down! Real close!! The twin Beech, as best as I can recall was sold soon after that as best I can remember? Best to you, James M. Rogers
Chudleigh Concludes:
All this looks quite conclusive.
- In the forward to Frank Tallman's book, Flying The Old Planes, Joe Brown says the sign was near the Orange County airport;
- Actual invoices from the Tallmantz company, now in the Margaret Herrick Archives, show that the plane departed from the Orange County airport and made an emergency landing at the same airport less than an hour later;
- One of the Tallmantz employees who built the sign says they set it up just over the hill from the Orange County airport, in Irvine, near the no-longer-there Lion Country Safari. And if that is true, that white station wagon in the photo may be driving north on Highway 133 (Laguna Canyon Road) just south of I-405.
- Besides, Tallmantz was located at the Orange County Airport, and according to the invoice for the billboard stunt, the Beech-18 was located there. It is reasonable to assume they would do their stunts as close to that airport as possible. Why would they drive half an hour to erect a sign near another airport, then fly a plane 10 minutes to get there — to perform a stunt they could do right next to their hangars at John Wayne?
Still More:
In July 2010, a visitor to the site, Glenn Morrison, wrote:
It is interesting to read some of the banter of the Orange County vs. Chino
airports for the sign stunt. Anyone who has been to Chino would know that there
is no hill like that at or near the end of the runway. It’s flat dairy land all
the way to Hwy 91. That would have to be Euclid Ave. to frame left, and that
would be looking north. It’s flat dairy land to the north too. I was born in
Ontario and I have been banging around Chino since I was a kid. My father worked
there since the early 50’s when it was PAC (Pacific Airmotive Corporation).
His name was Gerry (E.G.) Morrison. He was a partner at Aerosport there at
Chino. He told me that he worked on the plane for that movie as well as Flight
of The Phoenix and the TV series 12 O’clock High. I remember the big glassed-in
nose of the B-25, too. I helped him swing the compass in the plane one day when
I was down there.
This may solve the mystery to the Beechcraft-18 (or add fuel to the fire). It
wasn’t a Beech-18 but a Lockheed. I remember my dad telling me that they swapped
the tail on the plane to make it look like a Beechcraft. Considering the
problems of the wings on the Beechcraft (info gleaned from your web page), maybe
Tallmantz opted for the stronger Lockheed. That could also make it harder to
sell. It might have to be “experimental”.
Please feel free to post this on the web page. In fact, please do.
Regards
Glenn Morrison
